Alana Thomas is a lawyer who has found her vocation representing iwi, hapū and whānau claimants in Waitangi Tribunal enquiries. She is a descendant of Ngāti Rehia and Ngāti Kuri, and began her journey only after her own brush with the law. 

She talked to Te Rawhitiroa Bosch (Ngāpuhi, Ngāti Kahu, Pākehā) for the reo Māori podcast series Ki Tua on Māori Television — about finding her path, and her fight to speak only te reo Māori in the courtroom. 

This is an edited transcript of their kōrero, with reo Pākehā translations by Connie Buchanan.

 

Te Rawhiritoa Bosch: I tū koe hei māngai, hei rōira mō tō hapū, mō Ngāti Rehia, i roto i te kōtitanga Takutai Moana. Kōrero mai mō tērā whēako?

Alana Thomas: Tērā kōtitanga i tū ki tō mātou whare, ki Whitiora, ki Te Rangatiratanga, e tino hāngai ana tēnā nohoanga o te taraipiunara ki te ture o te Takutai Moana, i ōna wā ko te Seabed and Foreshore.

I tino hirahira tēnā nohoanga ki te iwi Māori ka tahi, ka rua, ki a mātou o Ngāti Rēhia, inā hoki e noho ana tērā kōtitanga i roto i tō mātou whare, i roto i tō mātou rohe. Tāpiri i tēnā, āe, e hirahira ake nei ki a au anō hoki, e whakakanohi ana i taku hapū mō tēnei take e tino pātata ana ki te ngākau, e tino pātata ana ki a mātou, ki a Ngāti Rehia i runga anō i te mōhio, he hapū, he iwi o te moana mātou.

Engari, i tū mātou i runga anō i te hōhā. E mōhio ana koe i te mahi a te karauna i roto i ēna tūmomo mahi, i kaha rātou ki te takahi i ā rātou kī taurangi i puta ake i te Tiriti o Waitangi. Ehara i te mea, he rerekē tēnei. 

Nō reira, ko te pātai nui o te taraipiunara mō taua nohoanga, he aha rā te tikanga o te Māori mō te Takutai Moana ka tahi, ka rua, āe rānei e takahi ana tēnei ture i aua tikanga rā?

Mōku ake, ōku ake whēako, i tērā tau, i oati au ki au anō, me mutu taku tuku i te reo Pākehā i ēnei kōtitanga o tātou.

Nō reira, i waimarie au. Kei kōnei taku kiritaki, taku hapū, e tautoko ana i tērā whāinga, me te tika hoki nē rā i roto i tēnā.

Te Rawhitiroa Bosch: You were appointed as a spokesperson and lawyer for your hapū in the Waitangi Tribunal hearing on Takutai Moana. Can you tell me a bit about that experience?

Alana Thomas: The hearing took place in our whare, at Whitiora, in our whare called Te Rangatiratanga. That Tribunal hearing concerned the Marine and Coastal Area Act — the Seabed and Foreshore Act, as it was called then.

That sitting was so significant for all Māori firstly, as well as to us of Ngāti Rēhia, taking place as it did in our whare and in our area. And it was important to me personally as well, to be representing my hapū for a cause that is so close to my heart, and so close to the hearts of Ngāti Rēhia given that we are very much a hapū and an iwi of the ocean. 

But we were there with sense of frustration, too. As you well know, the Crown has proven so adept at trampling on the promises made in Te Tiriti, and this law really was no different. The big question the Tribunal was asking in the hearing was — what is Māori tikanga in relation to the seabed and foreshore, and are those protocols being breached by this law?

For myself, that was the year that I vowed to myself I would stop speaking English within our courts system. 

I was lucky, because there I was with a client, my own hapū, who supported that goal, and the validity of it.

Mō ēnei tūmomo kōtitanga, me tuku i ngā kōrero mō te Māori i roto i tō tatou reo?

Tika. I te wā ka tāhuri mātou ki te reo Pākehā, kāore tātou i runga i te ihi, i te wana o te kōrero nē? Ka pērā au, i pērā au i tērā kōtitanga, ka mutu, i tino waimarie tātou i roto i te ao o te rōpū whakamana i te Tiriti o Waitangi. I reira ngā tiati, he kōrero Māori. 

Ka mutu, ko ngā tangata e noho ana i te pānara, pērā i a Ranginui Walker, i ōna wā, i taua kōtitanga, ko Rawinia Higgins tērā, nō reira, he huarahi ki reira hei whai mā mātou ngā rōia ki te tuku i te reo Māori.

I roto i āku kōrero katoa, ko te reo Māori te rere, i roto i te whare i te kōtitanga, ka mutu, i aku tāpaetanga katoa, ngā tuhinga katoa, i oati i ahau, me mutu te kōrero reo Pākehā.

Ki te kore ngā tangata e pērā ana i a tāua, e kaha ana kia pērā, kāore tētahi atu tangata e mahi ana i te mahi, nō reira ko au tēnā. 

So in all these kinds of cases and hearings, you speak only in our language?

Correct. When you switch to English you lose the passion in your words, don’t you? It was like that for me at that hearing.

But we were so fortunate to be among those who uphold Te Tiriti. There were Māori-speaking judges, and others sitting on the panel, like Ranginui Walker and Rawinia Higgins. So there was this road for me and other Māori-speaking lawyers to follow, to speak the reo. 

Everything I say in the courtroom now, is said in te reo Māori. All of my submissions, every written document.

I vowed to myself that I would just finish using English. If there weren’t others around me who were able to do that, who didn’t have that ability, if there was no one else doing the same — well, I’d still do it. 

Koutou o tēnei reanga e kōkiri ana i tērā haerenga, nē? Aua ki a āpopo i ngā tau e heke mai nei, nga rōira o tera wā, ngā tiati o tera wā, e reo Māori ana i roto i te ngā kōti mō ngā take Māori?

Koinā te whāinga. He tokoiti noa iho mātou e hautū ana i tērā waka, tokotoru, pea, tokowhā ngā roia, iti noa, e kaha ana ki te tuku.

Te nuinga o ngā rōia — me taku mihi ki a rātou, ōku hoa — i tuku i ngā kōrero whakataki i roto i te kōti. “Ko Alana Thomas tōku ingoa, e whakakanohi ana i tēnei kiritaki” — te aha atu, te aha atu, nā ka mutu i tēnā, ka huri ki te reo Pākehā. 

Ko tāku wero, ki ōku hoa rōia, me whakawhānui ake i te tuku i te reo Māori atu i ngā kupu whakataki me nga kupu whakakapi. Me ngana tātou, ki te tuku i te reo Māori i ngā wāhanga katoa o te kōtitanga, ka mutu, i ngā toronga katoa o te ao o te ture.

I pēnei au, i pēnei ētahi o ōku hoa, engari kei reira hoki ngā uauatanga.

Your generation is really championing this journey isn’t it? In the future, will all the lawyers and judges be speaking reo Māori in courts that are convened for Māori purposes?

That’s the goal. There are only a few of us on that waka at the moment, three maybe or four of us. 

Most lawyers — and I do mihi to my peers — use the reo only at the start of their appearance in court. “Alana is my name and I’m representing this client” — that sort of thing, and they finish there. Then they switch to English. 

My challenge to my peers is to expand the reo Maōri they use, beyond words of introduction and summary. We must be brave, and use the reo in all areas of the court, in all branches of the law. 

I’m doing it, some of my friends are doing it, but there are difficulties.

Āe, he reo anō tō te ao kōti, anā he kupu taka anō mō te ao pangarau, te ao pūtaiao. I riro mā koutou te whakakawe i ngā kupu mō te reo kōti, mō te reo o te ture nē? Kōrero mai mō tērā kaupapa? 

Hei tauira anō pea, ko te kupu tuatahi ka maringi mai i ngā ngutu o te rōia, ko “May it please your Honour” nō reira, mēnā ka tahuri tātou ki tētahi tikinara, he aha ēra “May it please your Honour” ēra momo kupu, rerenga kōrero e tino hāngai ana ki te ao ture. Ka aha au? 

Nō reira, i tērā atu tau, ko mātou ko Corin Merrick me Piripi Winiata i tino aro atu ki tērā ao. I hanga mātou i tētahi pukapuka, he momo “handbook”, mō ngā rōia kia whakararangitia  ētahi kupu e tino hāngai ana ki ngā wāhanga o te ao ture. Nā ko tētahi wāhanga o te pukapuka e hāngai ana ki te ture taihara, te ture whānau, ture taiao, ture taimahi, ka mutu, ki te rōpū whakamana i te Tiriti, te kōti whenua. 

Mēnā he hiahia ana te rōia ki te whakatakoto, ki te tuku, ki te tuhi i ērā rerenga kōrero, he māmā ake, tā rātou aro atu ki ēnā wāhanga.

Ehara i te mea, ēnei kupu nāku anō, nō taku hinengaro anahe! Kei a mātou tō mātou rōpū me ētahi o ngā tiati, e noho ana i te kāhui kaiwhakawā, i wānanga i ēnei kupu. 

Yes, because it’s really another language again in court, isn’t it? Like the vocabulary of maths or of science. So it was up to you guys to figure out how to manage the legal language used in court and law? Tell me about that mission?

Well, as an example, the first words which flow from the mouth of a lawyer are always: “May it please your Honour.” So, if we turn to the dictionary to find that phrase but can’t, what do I do? These types of words and way of speaking are so particular to the legal system. What do I do in that situation? 

So a couple of years ago myself, Corin Merrick and Piripi Winiata focused on this. We put together a book, a handbook, with all these types of sentences and words that are applicable to each section of the law. Criminal law, family law, environment law, employment law, as well as for those working to uphold Te Tiriti, or in the land court. There’s a list of phrases in each section that are relevant to each area of the law.

So if a lawyer wants to use these phrases while they’re speaking, or in their written documents, it’s easier now.

But it’s not as if I made these words up out of my own head! Our group of lawyers, along with a number of judges and justices, deliberated and discussed them together.

Mō te ture Takutai Moana, tū tērā hikoi nui te whakahē, te whakahē . . . ana, haere te wā kua panoni, kua whai kiko pea tērā ture. He aha ngā pānga o tērā ture ki tō tatou iwi ināianei?

Arā noa atu ngā hē o taua ture, i tēnei wā tonu nui. Ahakoa e kī ana te karauna ko te ture o te takutai moana — kua kuhu mai ngā kupu Māori — ahakoa tērā kei reira tonu ngā hē. E tāmi tonu nei te iwi Māori.

Ko te mea nui ki au, e kī ana rātou “Nobody owns the foreshore”, nē? Koinā te tūāpapa o te ture. Engari kei reira tonu ētahi takunga kia pupuri tonu te karauna i ētahi o ngā whenua. Ka pupuri anō hoki ētahi Pākehā  ki ō rātou whenua, engari anō te Māori, nō reira ko te iwi Māori te papa. 

Tērā tērā. Ka mutu, ko te wāhanga tuarua o taua ture rā, ka whakatakoto i te tukanga, i te haepapa, ka mate te iwi Māori ki te whai. Mēnā e hiahia ana tātou ki te kī atu “anei tētahi whenua o mātou e whai pānga ana” engari ko aua tukanga anō ka mate tātou ki te whai rawa atu ki te Kōti, nē? Kei konei tātou mai i te hainatanga o te Tiriti o Waitangi. E pūmau tonu ana i ō mātou tikanga. 

Mutu atu tēnā, ka tuku i te tono. Mā te Kōti, mā te kāwanatanga, mā tetahi kaiwhakawā, tiati pea, e whakatau — āe, Māori mā. Anei tō whenua, anei te “raina”. 

Engari he tino uaua tērā, ngā paearu.

Just going back to the Takutai Moana issue, there was the hīkoi to demonstrate the huge opposition to the original law. Time has passed and the law has changed now, and perhaps has more substance. What is the iwi view of that law now?

There are still so many things wrong with that law, even now. Despite the Crown calling it “Takutai Moana” — putting Māori words in there — there is still great wrong within it. It’s still oppressing Māori.

The key thing to me is that the Crown is still saying “nobody owns the foreshore” and that’s the foundation of the law. Within that is a pretext for the Crown to retain possession of land, for Pākeha to hold on to land, rather than Māori. 

The second thing is the process and the method by which iwi Māori must exhaust themselves proving they have a claim to some of those rights. If we want to be able to say, “Here is our land that we rightfully have an interest in,” then there are these processes we have to use to “prove” it to the courts. 

We have to show that we have exclusively used and occuplied the land since the signing of Te Tiriti. Once that’s done, then we have to send a request. Then it is the courts, the Crown, the judges, who will decide, “Yes, you are Māori. Here is your land. Here is the boundary line.” 

And that test, those criteria, are very, very difficult.

Ka mutu, ko tētahi mea whakaatu, i ū ai tō koutou hapū ki tēnei whenua, tē motu ai ngā here, engari nā te karauna anō i motu i ngā here? Arā te whakamatautau.

Āna, me pēwhea e whakaatu tērā?

Not only that, you must demonstrate that those ties to the land haven’t been severed, even though it is because of what the Crown itself has done that those ties have been severed? Yet that is the test.

Exactly, how are we supposed to demonstrate that?

Kua kite koe, e huri ana te tai? 

Pātai pai tēnā. I te mea, te nuinga o ngā tāngata e kī ana, āe, e huri ana te tai. 

Ko Alana? E huri ana te tai, āe, engari kātahi anō ka timata tērā huringa. Kāore e tino kaha ana tērā huringa!

E huri ana te tai, engari he roa te huarahi kei mua i a tātou. 

Te mea nui pea, i roto i ēnei tau, kua pahemoake nei, ko te ekenga o Justice Joe Williams, ki te taumata teitei i roto i te ao ture, ka mutu, ki a Chief Judge Taumaunu. Ko rāua e hautu ana i te waka e whakatairangahia ana te tangata Māori e noho ana i te kāhui.

Waimarie mātou i roto i te ao ture, ko rāua e arahi ana, e whakatairanga ana ki te ao ture — anei nga pāinga o te ao Māori. Kāore pea te ao ture i tino kite i tērā, e aua, engari ko rāua tērā e whawhai ana i te whawhai pai. 

Are you seeing the tide starting to turn?

That’s a good question. Most people would say that, yes, the tide is turning, times are changing. But me? The tide is turning, yes, but that has really only just started to happen. It’s not a very strong turning yet!

So times are changing but there’s still a long road ahead. 

One really important thing has been the elevation of Justice Joe Williams to the highest possible position in law, and also that of Chief District Court Judge Heemi Taumaunu.

We in law are so fortunate that those two are there leading the charge, and really championing the benefits of a Māori perspective within the legal system. I don’t know if the system fully appreciates those benefits, but those two are there fighting the good fight. 

I a koe e rangatahi ana, i mōhio koe, ā tōnā wā, “ka tū au he rōia Māori e kawe ana i te reo Māori, whawhai mō tōku hapū, mō tōku iwi?”

Me pono taku kōrero. Taku whēako tuatahi i te kōtitanga, ehara i te mea he whēako pai. I a au i te kura, i taraiwa au i tōku waka e haurangi tonu ana. Āe, ko au tēnā.

Nō reira, i mate au ki te haere ki te kōtitanga, mēnā ka puta mai tētahi painga i taua whēako — mēnā e mātakitaki ana ōku matua, kaore pea rāua i te whakaae he painga, tino whakamā tonu ana rāua i tēnei wā tonu — heoi anō, he whēako nui tērā ki au i taua wā rā. 

I haere au ki te kōtitanga i Whangārei mō tēnei hara nui a Alana, i tū au i mua i te kōti me taku tino whakamā ki te tū i tēnei. He tino rerekē tēnei ao i tōku ao i mōhio i tēnei a Alana. I reira hoki tōku whānau katoa, a Pāpā, a Māmā, katoa rātou i haere mai ki te kōti. 

I tū au i mua i te tiati, he Pākehā tēnei tiati, he tāne, he kaumātua. Nā, ko Alana tērā e tū ana ki mua i a ia, tuku atu taku whakapā mō tēnei hara.

Ka mutu, i tū a Pāpā, anō hoki ki te tuku i āna kōrero ki a au. Āe, tino tātā rawa atu me te tika hoki, ki a au. Ka mutu, i tāhuri ia ki te tiati ki te īnoi atu kia whai tātou i tētahi huarahi tikanga Māori. Tikanga nei, me kaua au e whai i tētahi huarahi o te ture mō te tūpono, ka kore au e ora anō i roto i taua ao.

Nō reira, waimaire au, i reira ia i taua wā. 

When you were young, did you know that at some point in the future “I will be appointed as a Māori lawyer, carrying my language with me, and fighting for my hapū and my iwi?”

I should tell the truth here. My first experience with the courts was not a good one. When I was at school, I drove my car drunk. Yep, that was me.

It ended with me having to go to court. The good thing out of that experience — although if my parents are seeing this, I don’t know that they’d say it was a good thing, they’re so ashamed to this day! — but it was truly a formative experience for me at that time.

I went to Whangārei court, for Alana’s big crime, and I stood there in absolute shame. The whole setting was just so different to the rest of my life. The entire family was there — Mum, Dad, everyone came to court. 

I stood before the judge, a Pākehā judge, male, elderly. I stood before him and delivered my apology for this offence. Then my dad stood and addressed me. He was, and rightly so, extremely disapproving of what I’d done. Then he turned to the judge and pleaded for us to take a different approach and to follow tikanga Māori so that I should never be in that position again. 

I was so lucky he was there for me that day.

Me āna rautaki?

Āna. I te mutunga o taku tū i mua i te kōti, tīmata taku wehe i te ruma rā, nā i tū mai tētahi atu Māori, he tama. E rite ana, pea, te pakeke. Kāore au i mahara i te take o tana hāmene engari i tū ia me tōna kotahi. Kāore ōna whānau. Kāore tētahi tangata i tae ki tōna taha ki te tautoko i a ia. Nō reira, kāore te tiati i tahuri ki tētahi atu huarahi hei whai mā tēnei tama, ahakoa he Māori, ahakoa kātahi anō au ka tū ki mua i a ia, ka tere hoki anō te tiati, te kōti ki te ture, ki te huarahi Pākehā. I haere ia ki te whare herehere. I kite au i te rerekētanga o taku tū me tāna tū.

Ka mutu, ko te tiati, i kite au i te nui o tōna mana. Nui te mana o tērā tangata e noho ana i tōna taumata, nā, he hē mēnā he kaumātua, Pākehā, kāore ōna reo, kaore ia i te paku mōhio, te wāhi mōhio, i te tikanga Māori.

Koinā, pea, te wā i tino kite au, i te ao ture, kāore ngā tikanga e noho tahi ana, e noho taurite ana ki te ture i roto i ngā kōti. Me taku whakaaro, ka aha? Ka aha tātou te iwi Māori? Nō koinā pea, ahakoa ehara i te mea he pai te take i haere au, koinā te tīmatanga pea o taku takahi i te huarahi ture. 

There for you with a strategy?

Exactly. At the end of my appearance before the court, I started to leave the room. The next person appearing was also Māori, a boy. He was about my age, I think. I don’t remember the reason for his charge, but he was there appearing alone. No family. No one had come to support him. 

So the judge didn’t pursue any other options for this boy, even though he was Māori and I had just stood before him myself, the judge was so quick to revert to the usual Pākehā law. That boy went to prison.  

I saw the stark difference between our situations.

I also saw the huge power that the judge had. The power of the person who was sitting in that position, an elderly white man, who had no reo, little knowledge of tikanga Māori. 

It was then that I saw, within the legal system, there was just no equivalency for tikanga Māori in the courts. And so I thought to myself: What do I do? What do we as iwi Māori do here? Even though I wasn’t there for a positive reason, that perhaps was the beginning of my path into the law. 

Ko koe e kawe ana i te reo Māori i roto i nga kōtitanga, e kōkiri ana i ēna momo āhuatanga i te taha o ōu koutou hoa, tō taua iti, he aha taua ki o hoa rōia reo Māori, rōia Māori, kia hiki ake tēnei mānuka?  

Ki āku hoa, he kōrero Māori, kaua e māngere, me tuku i te reo Maori. Ētahi wā, ka whai rātou i te huarahi māmā, e mōhio ana au ki te huarahi tuku i te reo Pākehā tērā, he pakeke ētahi wā, ki te tuku i te reo Māori. Nō reira, ki ōku hoa reo Māori, me tuku i te reo Māori, me kaua koe e mataku ki te tuku i te reo Māori, ahakoa ēna uauatanga.

Ētahi atu o ōku hoa, kia kaha koe ki te whakapakari i tō reo, nā, ko te kura reo tēnā, ko ngā pukapuka reo Māori tērā, arā noa atu, ngā kaupapa whakapakari te reo i tēnei wā nei, nō reira me whai i aua huarahi. 

Ko taku tino whāinga pea, i roto i ēnei tau kei mua tonu i te aroaro — ki ngā rōia katoa, rōia katoa o te motu, Māori mai, Pākehā mai, ka mutu ki ngā tauira, ahakoa ngā ture o ngā whare wānanga, me ako tūturu tātou ki te Tiriti o Waitangi, ki Te Whakaputanga, me mātua mōhio tātou ki aua tuhinga rā, i roto i ā tātou hīkoitanga i te ao ture. 

He mea nui tērā, ki au.

You are championing the reo within the courts, along with a few of your peers. What do you say to other Māori lawyers who want to take up this challenge too?

To my peers who speak Māori, I’d say: “Don’t be lazy. You must use your reo.” Sometimes we take the easy path, and I know that using English is easier and using Māori can be hard. So to my peers who speak the reo: “We must use the reo. Don’t be afraid, despite the difficulties.” 

To those others, be strong in your commitment to improve your reo. There are classes, books, so many ways now to strengthen your language, you must pursue those paths.

Perhaps my main goal, in the years ahead, is for all lawyers in the country — Māori and Pākehā — to learn the actual meaning of the Treaty of Waitangi and the Declaration of Independence. No matter what the curriculum of the universities is, we must first truly understand those documents in our legal journey.

That’s so important to me.  

He tūāpapa nē o ngā ture katoa?

Mēnā e kī ana te ao ture ko te Tiriti ko te “Constitutional Document” mō tēnei whenua nei, me ako tātou, me āta titiro ki ngā kupu i roto. He aha te take e kī ana te iwi Māori he rerekē te tuhinga reo Māori ki te tuhinga Pākehā, me mātua mōhio tātou.

I roto i aku mahi, ia tau ia tau, i whakahaere au i tētahi hōtaka mō ngā rōia katoa puta noa i Aotearoa, he “Cultural Development Programme”, nē.

Ko tētahi wāhanga o taua hōtaka e tino hāngai ana ki Te Whakaputanga me te Tiriti o Waitangi. Ia te tau, i pātai au i te pātai, he aha tēnei mea te Tiriti o Waitangi, he aha tēnei mea Te Whakaputanga, te nuinga o ratou, kāore i te paku mōhio. Ko ngā rōia tēnei. Ētahi, kei te tihi o te maunga i roto i te ao ture, engari kāore rātou i te mōhio, he aha te Tiriti o Waitangi? 

Ko taku wero, ki te hunga rōia, ko te Law Society, me mana i ētahi hōtaka mō ia rōia e hiahia ana ki te tū hei rōia, ka mate rātou ki te ako i ngā āhuatanga katoa o te Tiriti o Waitangi, ka mutu, ki te hītoria tika o tō tatou motu!

Koinā taku tino whāinga. Nā konā pea, ka tūwhera mai te hinengaro o te rōia ki tēnei ao o tātou, te ao o te Māori, te reo Māori, ngā tikanga Māori, te ao kei tua atu i te kupu. Āe koinā taku tino whāinga.

Because that’s the foundation of all law?

If we are to be able to say that Te Tiriti is the constitutional document for our legal system in this country, we must study it. We must closely consider the words within it. What is the reason that iwi Māori say their version is different to the Pākehā version? All of us must truly know those things. 

In my work, every year I organise a cultural development programme for lawyers around the country. Part of that programme is a focus on the Declaration of Independence and Te Tiriti. Every year, I ask the question: What is this thing, Te Tiriti? This thing, the Declaration? And most of them, they don’t really know. Yet these are lawyers. Some of them are at the top of their game in the legal world but they still don’t really know what the Treaty is.

My challenge to lawyers, to the Law Society, is to insist on a programme for those who want to be lawyers, to properly study the Treaty and the real history of our country. That’s my goal. 

That way, maybe, we can open legal minds to this world of ours, the Māori world, our tikanga, and all the things that lie beyond just our language. That’s my primary goal.

Pēhea tērā atu whāinga? E whai ana koe kia noho koe hei tiati ā tōna wā?

I te tātari au ki tēnei pātai! I roto i ngā tau o mua, i whakamā au ki te whakahua i aku hiahia, engari ki au i tēnei wā, āe koinā taku whāinga, hei tiati.

What other goals do you have? Would you like to eventually be appointed a judge, at some point?

I was waiting for that question! I used to be embarrassed to admit that was one of my goals, but now, I don’t mind saying: Yes, absolutely. That’s a goal, to become a judge.

Mihi ana ki a koe, tēnā rawa atu koe.

 

You can listen to Te Rawhitiroa’s full-length conversation with Alana Thomas on his podcast Ki Tua.

He ringa toi, he kaiwhakaahua a Te Rawhitiroa nō Ngāpuhi, nō Ngāti Kahu ki Whangaroa. Ko tāna he mahi i āna mahi, hei painga mō ōna iwi. He whakatairanga i te iwi Māori, i ōna painga, i ōna tuahangata, i ōna whakamiharotanga kia kitea ai e te ao whānui. I tū a Te Rawhitiroa hei kaiwhakataki mō te hōtaka nei, mō Ki Tua, hei kaiwhiri i ngā aho kōrero e hukea ai ngā kura huna o ngā kaikōrero hei whakarongohanga mā te iwi whānui.

Te Rawhitiroa Bosch (Ngāpuhi, Ngāti Kahu ki Whangaroa) is an artist, reo Māori advocate, photographer and the presenter of the reo Māori podcast Ki Tua. Through his work he strives to serve his people and to uplift the beauty and magic of the Māori world for all to understand and appreciate. With Ki Tua, he weaves narratives and creates moments of connection to uncover the hidden gems and lessons from within the life stories of his guests.

web www.rawhitiroa.com  |  instagram @rawhitiroa  |  facebook www.facebook.com/rawhitiroaphotography