“The long-standing lack of ambition for a liveable benefit means that this government’s regime of stricter surveillance rules makes life for people on benefits even more difficult and stressful,” says Brooke Pao Stanley who works with beneficiaries at Auckland Action Against Poverty. (Photo: Fliss Thompson)

New rules for beneficiaries will impose harsher sanctions on those who don’t meet government requirements to look for work.

But those who work closely with people on benefits say punitive measures aren’t effective. Here’s Brooke Pao Stanley from Auckland Action Against Poverty in conversation with Teuila Fuatai.

Every time there’s a shift in policy around benefits, people hit me up for comment.

I get asked to describe the impacts of the new policies on the people they target. Most of the time, these people are Pacific, Māori, living with disabilities, migrants or in low-wage jobs.

I’m also asked to go through specific examples of people to show the “struggle on the ground”. Whether it be the young mum of three trying to make do on a benefit, or the family of five who’ve been in emergency housing for months.

In most cases, this has to be done in a soundbite or quick interview. I’ve had at least eight media interviews this week where I’ve been asked to do just that.

Honestly, I really dislike it. I dislike talking about people’s individual stories because at this point, I think we all should know better. None of these stories are new. And it’s incredibly frustrating to have to roll out people’s experiences and pain to show what we already know.

I’ll state outright, as I’ve done countless times, that the biggest barrier for people on a Jobseeker benefit is that it’s not enough to live on safely. We need liveable incomes for everybody who is being supported through Work and Income. That’s every student, every young person, and anyone on a supported living payment or benefit.

I can’t believe I still have to say that out loud. I find it even more baffling that those in power, through their actions, seem to lack any real understanding of that. Even worse, maybe they just don’t care.

We all know that benefits are below the poverty line. We also know that a lot of people in New Zealand, not just those on benefits, are in low-wage work. That means we have a whole section of society living in poverty. And if we look across our communities, there are so many problems because of poverty.

I want to point out that this is not only because of the current government’s policies. Under Labour, the increase to benefit payments was about $20. It’s something, but it’s so minor when you look at the cost of living increases people have had to contend with.

The long-standing lack of ambition for a liveable benefit means that this government’s regime of stricter surveillance rules makes life for people on benefits even more difficult and stressful.

Ultimately, the state has never shown that it has the genuine interests of vulnerable people at heart.

At Auckland Action Against Poverty, we work with a lot of people who are on a benefit. They come to see us because they’ve been declined support when they should be getting it. Often, they’re people who receive special-needs grants, people who are in need of emergency accommodation, people who have rent arrears, or people who’ve had their power turned off. So we advocate for them.

But we find that the culture at WINZ, and MSD, isn’t geared towards genuinely helping these people, even though that’s their mandate. The culture in these institutions is geared towards getting people off the benefit in whatever way is possible. That simply doesn’t allow for proper support of a person’s needs and aspirations. They’re simply about moving people off their books and into the next available job. Generally, those jobs are low-paid and low-skilled. People often don’t want to do them — they want to do work that is meaningful to them and has longevity.

I can’t emphasise enough how important it is to understand that. If we had a welfare system that actually focused on people’s own aspirations, and empowered and uplifted them, things would look very different. The jobs they get would be far more likely to last, and create permanent change in their lives.

The other thing to understand is that people accessing the Jobseeker benefit, or other benefits, often have high and complex needs.

These are people who have often experienced intergenerational trauma and domestic violence. They may have mental health issues, some have head injuries. Often, they’re living with a disability or have children in their care who have disabilities. Addiction problems can come into the picture too.

That background, context and experience isn’t given consideration within the Work and Income culture, which is judgmental and very low-trust. The staff at Work and Income simply aren’t equipped and trained to deal with these kinds of needs.

I believe that comes back to the values that underpin the system.

It’s important to remember that today’s welfare system operates within a capitalist structure which requires a certain level of unemployment for the market to operate. You hear that kind of talk all the time among business people — it’s never about eliminating unemployment and poverty. It’s about the acceptable or “good” level of unemployment.

So rather than act as a safety net, the welfare system has developed to administer poverty. And it’s been that way since the 1980s.

This has led to a situation where the level of poverty in New Zealand has worsened. It’s become entrenched and intergenerational in parts of the community.

Yet, in Aotearoa, we have all the levers to address poverty. If we wanted to, we could eliminate poverty tomorrow.

The best example of that is Covid. The government literally changed things overnight. They housed everybody and ran a high-trust model at Work and Income. For a change, if you lost your job, it was easy to access support. I remember that when Grant Robertson was asked about it, he said the government recognised that there was an emergency, and there was a need to get money into the community.

That emergency, that need, is ongoing. It’s every day for the people I see, who, despite everything, are so resilient.

We can’t continue to look to leadership models that are based on coloniser values. They don’t work because they’re driven by ego and fear of handing over power. And when your values are driven by that, you’re always going to be stuck in a loop. We’re in the midst of that right now with the welfare system.

There are alternatives to colonial capitalism. It is possible to root our society in values that honour balance and each person’s innate value and dignity.

One of the hardest things for me about the work and advocacy I do is the lack of those alternative choices for people in the system.

If you need a benefit from MSD, and you’re being pushed into precarious or low-paying work, you can’t just turn around and refuse to engage. There are no other options. We’re forced to participate in the Crown system. Even though the Crown has failed to honour the Treaty and has an illegitimate hold on power and resources. Even though it’s failing Māori, and Pacific, and so many of our people.

We’re living through climate change, through Covid, through literal genocides across the world, and colonial capitalism is falling to pieces. Papatūānuku is at her threshold. Yet we carry on perpetuating a system that’s not well designed and that certainly doesn’t look after all of us.

The current benefits model is based on punishment. The amounts provided are too low for people to live with any kind of dignity. Those in power have refused to raise them to a liveable rate.

Providing enough money to live safely and decently is about recognising that a person is here, they’re alive, and that there’s intrinsic dignity in their existence — regardless of their circumstances.

If we provide the means for our most vulnerable to live with decency and dignity, there’s a much greater chance they will find long-term solutions to their own challenges.

Brooke Pao Stanley is the co-ordinator for Auckland Action Against Poverty (AAAP), an advocacy group focused on the vision of a poverty-free Aotearoa. AAAP is based in Māngere.

As told to Teuila Fuatai. Made possible by the Public Interest Journalism Fund.

E-Tangata, 2024